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Evolution vs. ID

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Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:30 pm

The subject of Evolution vs. Creation is well known and constantly being debated about. But a less known idea is Intelligent Design. So... is Intelligent Design religion or science?

Talk about which one you're for, why, maybe if you're not for either of them, but back your statement up, don't say something so juvenile such as: because it's stupid- we're all friends, try to be friendly.

This is a wonderful documentary on the subject.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by To Sir, With Love on Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:16 am

Intelligent design, a mastermind behind what we see today. Recently I've come to a half point of the possibility of both intelligent design and evolution, but not evolution to the point of apes turning into humans, but rather the adaptation of creatures and plantlife to their surroundings. For example we humans have an appendix, which technically isn't needed, but probably was at some point in life and the color of each person's skin, at one point all humans may have existed with the same color skin, but as people moved and settled into different enviroments, the color of their skin changed to adjust to that climate.

Then there's the smaller things, atoms, bacteria, etc. All so intricately designed for a purpose, to fit just right that it's almost hard to believe it's by random chance.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:41 am

In my honest opinion, I think ID is just Creationism repackaged with high-priced 'scientists' to back their claims. I, being close to having Agnostic beliefs, really do believe in evolution one-hundred percent. I just feel a lot more comfortable with coming to conclusions backed verifiable evidence. And thus far, all evidence has given Darwin's theory the green light in all aspects. Yeah, we may not have found that missing link and perhaps we may never will, but that is the beauty of science. It gives me a reason to keep investigating and trying to find my own way.

ID, on the other hand, seems like it is so concrete; set in stone. Because a certain book says this it must be true. A lot of people may say that that isn't the case at all. The ID is a science. Science is not and never should be based on faith and that is exactly what it is doing. It astounds me, the amount of people that will give into faith blindly, but to each their own. I say live and let live. But as far, as ID vs. Evolution goes, my opinion will never waver. Believer of Darwin's theory through and through.

~says the aspiring palaeontologist/museum director. Smile
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:45 am

lmfao
I can't say I believe in Evolution 100%, because honestly in everything there's gaps and I'm trying to search for something I can find little or none in.

But I agree with you on ID. It's not a science. It's re-worded creationism and no one seems to understand that.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:01 am

I believe in what has the most verifiable evidence to back it up and evolution is that theory. I, honestly, don't see how people can't see it for what it is, but then again I am my own person as our others. I just find it the teensiest bit irritating when what all the scientific world has discovered and presented to the world is stepped on and pushed aside simply because the 'other side' is more well-funded. ID is even on public channels now. Public channels I grew up with; Bill Nye and NOVA pushed aside for the next Evangelical with a 'scientist' attached to their hip.

Not even a couple of weeks ago, I was watching a show on ID. They presented a '6,000 year old fossil' with a dinosaur and human footprint meshed together. It sent me into a fit of hysterics. I was laughing, but I couldn't believe what was on the screen. How? How can people fall for this? It was obviously Creationism wrapped in a different name. It's like having a ridiculously fancy gift box only to store coal inside. People get distracted by these fancy wrapping so much that they completely forget the box's contents. It drives me up the wall to no end.

I don't hate the people for their beliefs, but I do dislike the way it's being fed to people because it is just packaged in rainbows and butterflies so it will settle with people better. This is becoming a rant. I was even starting to think about Japanese internment camps during WWII. I think I shall cut it off here.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:11 am

XD

But I see what you're saying. The ID believers are so caught up in it, they believe it's something it's not, and of course everyone taught ID believes it, too. Even if it's false. And don't get me wrong, I'm in no way calling their beliefs false (though, I believe that, I won't force it). I'm calling the fact that they think it's a science false. It's not a science at all. It's regurgitated (much the like rabbit's digestive system lmfao) faith being called science.

It's the equivalent of calling God a science.

I'm starting to think that because it involves molecules, nuclei, and the study of organisms, that they think it's a science. The process requires information, but that doesn't make the belief a science.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:19 am

Exactly. I mean, I just wish I could see what they see. I am not one to judge others. I simply want to understand, but I simply can't get my head around it. It's mind-boggling. When the science involved in ID proves that there is an actual creator behind all these 'designs' will be the day I shut my mouth. Until then expect me to continue to believe what I believe in. ID is a faith not a science. Wearing lab coats and having a doctorate does not make you a scientist especially if you go into it with biases in the first place.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:21 am

Absolutely. ::con:

I have a feeling that no one else will be debating this. XD
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:28 am

I told you. Coffee
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by To Sir, With Love on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:34 pm

shifty With the risk of being hated or banished, this may be the end of the debate as you two kind of put your thoughts out there in a way to push away any kind of debate. A debate involves questioning the other, which I may do later when I'm not just getting out of bed...XD I do enjoy debating though, this topic especially.

Angelica, I actually think the reason ID's now on public broadcasting is a matter of starting to involve different ideas, I could be wrong as I haven't watched PBS in awhile except for watching shows about American history, but other than that I couldn't tell you if my idea on why is correct or not. Evolution is still considered a theory. Because it's still labeled a theory makes me wonder as to why it's considered a fact set in stone.

Biases are hard to leave at the door, no matter what, because everyone has their personal opinions. If I were to tell you to go to a lab to research the possibility of creationism being existant, you might have a hard time because you already have it set what you believe.

On the flip side, I have a hard time believing the idea that everything randomly came into existance, that there's no thought behind why we're here. Why can't there have been a greater mind behind everything? I've even heard the suggestion that if there was a Big Bang, that this greater mind used it for what He wanted. Could this be possible? I mean people can believe that this world just happened, they have faith, which is the same thing as beliving in an intelligent designer, it's faith.

Thus ends my train of thought, I will be back though.
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:09 am

I don't have any problem with your way of thinking Melissa. At all. And never will you be hated, I assure you that. The reason I say that I'll keep believing in evolution until else comes along that might debunk it to a certain extent. As hard as it is, I do try to keep an open mind because just as I find faith fallible I find science fallible. That's why hypotheses will always be tested. That's the point of scientific observation.

I've talked to a great many people about the possibility of the Big Bang having a power behind it. And, honestly, I have no qualms with that. That may be possible, but that is a matter of faith. I don't have problems with people thinking there is a higher power behind everything because, in all reality, no one will ever be able to say for sure and put that on paper. Where I run into a problem is when people start feeding lies to the public. Like the fact that the earth is 6,000 years old or that humans and dinosaurs and all other animals coexisted peacefully all at once. That's-- that is what really gets me going.

If you run along with faith, it might give everything more of a reason for existing and if that provides you with a sense of calm or whatever fine, but when people start putting ridiculous theories out there without any sort of foundation except what's in a book which in itself has had a lot of contradiction behind it in the first place (and that a whole 'nother debate altogether XD), that's just not right.

I'm one of the few with a scientific mind that's willing to look into the opposition's point of view and put aside my biases for those moments just as anyone needs to do with any debate, but on the other hand like any person that wont necessarily mean that in the end I'll throw my beliefs to the side.

A higher power behind the Big Bang is and will always remain a possibility; like many things involving these topics. As far as the story of the Earth and its creatures being exactly like it is explained in the Bible, I don't think it is at all. It seems to be what ID sneakily reverts to... And I don't agree with it. You can believe in a higher power, but don't throw away facts or sweep them under a carpet.

[ My icon really makes it hard for me to take myself seriously lmfao Although this is probably one of the few things I am very passionate about. ]
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:34 am

I haven't read your post, Angelica, and I know we have some rather same ideas, so sorry if I repeat. XD

To be honest, Mel, you brought up loads of good points. I do have a biased POV- everyone does, and like you said, it'll never completely be excused from anyone. Plus, I shall never hate you. Everyone has their own opinion and I'll never hate them for what they believe. Arms

I think a huge reason why God isn't real to me, is that the whole story sounds rather ridiculous and shady. I mean, there's talking snakes and people being punished for apples. Not to mention, the whole fact of there are so many different things to do with God. He's in so many different religions, interpreted in different ways, said to do different things, and it's all a mindset. Perhaps I have a problem with believing in faith or something I can't see, but to be an evolutionist (not to say I am, that's honestly just most of what I believe right now), you have to use your imagination as well. No one absolutely knows, because to be honest- science is based on loads of guesswork. The only thing is with science it's being proved and backed up and in religion, it's simply that you have to believe and that you have to just... take it with a grain of salt and assume that what you're being told is correct or there: faith. Science is based more around research and finding things out, which seems to fit better for me. The world was there before Jesus, right? After all, he was killed, on the cross. So... how did it get there before then and the other people and the things?

I see how you have a point of the Big Bang having a high power as well, and to be honest, we really don't know and it's a good point. But, even then, it'd still be different from the God we know of now, right?

It seems to me like God is a cop-out (no offence intended with any of this, by the way).

[lmfao Angelica, your icon makes me think that we descended from apes all the more. ]
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by Jimmian. on Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:47 am

Now as far as the 'debate' of this goes. I have a question that I'd like to hear your view on, Melissa. As you have asked some and I've answered with my opinions. Assuming there is a intelligent designer behind life as we know it, how does that explain organs is our body that are useless or animals like the dodo? Or fermentation processes in cows and horses? Just seeing things from one that believes in religion, I've always gotten the answer 'His mind and reasoning is too complex for us to ever comprehend', but that isn't a concrete answer. For me, anyway. It just seems like there are too many holes and imperfections in being to deem it 'intelligent'. Whereas evolution explains it by a basic 'trial and error' process animals go through. That's one of my biggest problems with ID.

[ Yes! I am getting my point across. XD ]

And, Melissa, please don't hate me... Arms
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by FICTION on Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:50 am

Jimmian. wrote: Assuming there is a intelligent designer behind life as we know it, how does that explain organs is our body that are useless or animals like the dodo? Or fermentation processes in cows and horses?

Or rabits. ::facepalm:
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Re: Evolution vs. ID

Post by To Sir, With Love on Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:55 am

[ You know I could never hate you. Arms ]

I actually brought up the idea of now useless parts of the human body earlier in this. What I can only assume is they were once used, but over time the human body adapted to the enviroment as still happens. There are some viruses that effect some people, but no longer effect others as they've grown immune, in other words they've adapted to survive certain germs and not get sick.

As for the fermentation process, I honestly can't answer as I hardly know anything about it. I looked it up, but I won't lie, I was lost. Because that's something I don't understand, I can't explain and I'm sorry because I wish I had an answer. I don't know it all though, I'm not a scientist, but I'm learning and studying. I want to understand.
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